1819 R01 period end reports Missing learners

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Ben.Feighery 1 week ago.

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
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  • Ben.Feighery
    Participant

    I’ve checked 2 providers data now and they are both missing learners from the Apps Monthly Payment Report. most of the missing appear to be learners who would not generate any funding in the month, i.e leavers with an august 18 end date, breaks in learning or learners with a planned end date in August who are out of OPP’s.

    Has anyone else spotted similar? i’ve logged calls with the service desk but nothing back yet.

    The numbers missing are still in double figures for live and in-funding even if i try to tell myself that these reports now only show payable learners and there is not meant to be any visibility over all the learners that are submitted. I’ve only checked FM36 so far and i hope that the FM35 and trailblazer reports have been untouched.

    p.s. completely clear rule violation and mismatch reports at the same time so they are not hiding in there.

    Ben F.

     
    #286439

    chrisbradley
    Participant

    Hi Ben,

    yes I have also done the same as you and found that all apprentices that are not due any funding at all at period 1 are excluded from the monthly payments report. I am not sure yet in my own mind if that is helful or not.
    I have however found an error which I have reported to the Service Desk. I have one apprentice who is actually a withdrawal however the actual end date is 31/08/2018. This record has also been excluded from the payments report which is inaccurate as the P1 OPP is due.
    Chris

     
    #286441

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    The guidance for this report states: If your ILR submission generates no payments for this report, this report will be blank.
    I would assume where an individual learner does not generate any payments then they would also not be included.
    HTH

     
    #286443

    chrisbradley
    Participant

    Hi Martin, that is correct. That is how the report looks
    Chris

     
    #286445

    Ben.Feighery
    Participant

    Thanks Martin,
    That has explained 80% of the missing learners for me and destroyed my processes for checking monthly activity against payments… looks like it’s back to the drawing board on that one.

    If you have the specification for the apprenticeship mismatch report to hand, shouldn’t’ that highlight any discrepancy which would lead to non-payment of a live levy learner? If we assume the only reason a valid Levy learner record doesn’t get paid is if it doesn’t match on the apprenticeship service, and i have 10+ levy learners missing from the payments report, should they not appear on the mismatch report.

    Ben F.

     
    #286448

    chrisbradley
    Participant

    Hi Ben,

    have you checked the apprenticeship service just in case an employer has stopped or paused an apprentice? These will not appear as a DAS to ILR mis-match. Just a thought.
    Chris

     
    #286454

    Ben.Feighery
    Participant

    doing that at the moment, but it feels insane compared to the relative simplicity of the FM35 reports that we have to go digging in every corner each month to pull together a view of what’s going on with payments. It would have been simpler to just go direct with all the employers and invoice them individually and track that way, at least there would be clarity over what has been earned and what has been received.

     
    #286456

    chrisbradley
    Participant

    tell me about it. I have been banging my head with this stuff for 12 months!!! I seriously doubt that those behind the new methodology don’t even know what you mean by FM35!!!!! Talk about chucking the baby out.

     
    #286462

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Chris,
    Added for 2018/19
    DLOCK_10, The employer has stopped payments for this apprentice
    DLOCK_11, The employer is not currently a levy payer
    DLOCK_12, The employer has paused payments for this apprentice

     
    #286490

    chrisbradley
    Participant

    Thanks for that Martin, very helpful.

    Chris

     
    #286504

    matthew.rogers
    Participant

    Is there a reason why planned end date, actual end date and completion status columns (to name a few) are missing from this months End Period reports?

     
    #286670

    Ben.Feighery
    Participant

    i wish i knew, that was a delight i discovered mid way through trying to rationalize the data yesterday. It’s now impossible for me to do anything meaningful with the data without importing it in to a SQL database and joining in reference data from multiple sources including the raw ILR file that was submitted.

     
    #286672

    chrisbradley
    Participant

    Hi Martin,

    just following on from your helpful pointer about the new DAS mis-match reports, the learner I queried with the ESFA that had an actual end date at the point of withdrawal of 31/08/2018 and no OPP to be paid had been stopped by the employer dated 14/08/2018 hence the reason excluded from the payments report. There does however still appear to be a problem as the period end DAS to ILR match report had no mis-matches in it. It was blank.
    Chris

     
    #286676

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Chris,
    It could be if the report has no mis-match data in it then the report is blank and would not include any DLOCK_10 to 12 data, I suspect an error with the reporting but who knows.
    You do have to ask why the employer stopped at 14/08/2018.

     
    #286680

    chrisbradley
    Participant

    I Know Martin. All fun and games! I was hoping last year’s learning curve on all sides would have sorted this year out but perhaps not?

     
    #286684

    Ben.Feighery
    Participant

    Chris, that issue with the end dates in DAS cutting off payment prematurely looks to be on the Known issues list and is being worked on. let’s hope the example you logged allows them to test the fix actually works!

     
    #286712

    chrisbradley
    Participant

    Hi Ben,

    I am wondering if the employer stopped the apprentice dated 14th August but between 31st August and the 6th September submission deadlinei.e. back-dated? The problem was certtainly not seen in the DAS match report.
    Something is not quite right somewhere.
    Thank you.
    Chris

     
    #286903

    Ben.Feighery
    Participant

    I don’t think the DAS match reports are that sophisticated at the moment, maybe if you add in the agreement ID to the ILR (assuming you haven’t yet) then it will give you better error information?

    One of the unintended issues with this whole system is that it seems the employers can fix the data from their end after our submission deadline and it still counts for the final reports. so we never truly know if the data we have submitted will stay matched until the final report comes out and providers are left in limbo over their month’s performance for days after the submission. I have seen staff get disciplinary type action against them because they haven’t hit their numbers in month and it being down to employer data not being in place.

     
    #287355
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