Adult Worker Provision – Funding Help

Home Forums Data issues Adult Worker Provision – Funding Help

This topic contains 24 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Paul John James 5 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
  • Author
    Posts

  • Paul John James
    Participant

    Hello,

    I have been working with the Employer Responsive model for some time now and am aware that the formula (correct me if I am wrong) for working out the £s is SLN x National Rate x Weighting Factor. So, 0.44 x £2,615 x 1.3 = £1,495.78 for a learner on the National Rate (with no regional uplift) at 100% funding eligibility.

    In 2012/13, I will be working with Classroom learning for the first time. This I believe is a different funding mechanism with it’s own formula. As an example, I would be extremely grateful if you could assist me by informing me how one would calculate the following:

    19+ adult learner undertaking a Level 1 Award in the classroom (so am I right in assuming you work with the GLH of 44 in this case rather than the ER of 0.093?). However, it clearly isn’t the same formula as 44 x £2,615 x 1 = £115,060. Now unless the SFA are feeling extremely generous, there must be another way..?

     
    #251

    Simon France
    Participant

    Classroom based is SLN x £2615 x Provider Factor (not Weighting Factor)

     
    #252

    Paul John James
    Participant

    Cheers Simon

     
    #253

    Anonymous

    Is that for funding model 45 (old TtG) classroom based 19+?

     
    #254

    Paul John James
    Participant

    Am I right in thinking that classroom-based funding for 19+ is ALR when looking at the LARA?

    Another question (please forgive any naivety) is how does one work out or find out their provider factor?

    It may be important to note that the reason I do not know this is because for the past 4 years my organisation has always been a sub-contractor working with lead providers. 2012/13 will be the first year my organisation is actually on the Register of Training Organisations. I have never used (or been aware of) any Provider Factor. I have read the SFA Guidelines for 2011/12 and there is a good section on what the Provider Factor is (that it is linked to program weighting, area costs, disadvantages, success factors, etc) however it doesn’t highlight any formula for working out the provider factor. Or is this a prescribed value given to a provider by the SFA?

    Thanks for the help.

     
    #255

    steveh
    Participant

    Hi Paul

    Yes ALR (Adult Learner Responsive) is 19+ clasroom-based on LARA.

    In terms of your provider factor it’s the latter, I think the SFA do have a formula for working it out, but it’s never been that transparent, also most elements of it are (in 12/13 at least) based on previous performance, not the learners you’re currently working with, which could be interesting for you…

    The factor is on your Final Funding Statement for the year at the bottom of page one and is also in LIS, so when you put your data through and run the Summary of Learner Responsive Funding report, it shows up under National Provider Factor on there too.

    Hope that helps!

     
    #256

    Simon France
    Participant

    Hi QTSPaul,

    Your organisation should have been given a ‘Final Funding Statement’ and your Provider Factor is shown on there. It is at the bottom of the first page.

    Alternatively, if you have processed ILRs then it is on the Summary of Learner Responsive Funding report.

     
    #257

    paultaylor
    Participant

    If you are a training provider delivering classroom through your ER budget (funding model 45, LDM 125) then the provider factor does not factor in your funding calculation.

    You need to take your SLN value from the ER other tab in LARA to calculate your rate (SLN X Programme Weighting x 2615). You will be paid on programme payments with 25% achievement at the end as per your other ER funding. Disadvantaged uplift is also applied to the individual funding rates.

    Paul

     
    #258

    Simon France
    Participant

    You can always count on us FM22 providers to confuse everyone…. sorry.

     
    #259

    Paul John James
    Participant

    Steveh/Simon – thanks for the advice, guys! Your points are very interesting though as my organisation has never received a Summary of Learner Responsive Funding report! I would assume it is because we are the sub-contractor, not the lead provider.

    We DO NOT submit ILR returns or use LIS. My team enrol learners, complete ILR documentation, retrieve the codes for the relevant funding model and send these to the lead provider. We have a comprehensive custom-built database (nothing like Maytas) to record learners, their ‘journey’ and recording learning and assessment. The lead provider we submit the paperwork to upload the information on their own LIS suite (presumably). This process is probably also why my organisation is not subjected to Ofsted inspections, however, our paperwork and systems may be scrutinised via a lead providers own inspection.

    Does the above further suggest there may not be a way for me to retrieve my Provider Factor?

    Hope the above makes sense!

    Paul

     
    #260

    Paul John James
    Participant

    Paultaylor – Are you able to provider classroom-based learning to unemployed 19+ learners through Employer Responsive, given that they are not employed?

     
    #261

    steveh
    Participant

    oh right, I see. Ask your lead provider for theirs, it’ll be what they use to generate the funding for your learners when they submit their ILR.

     
    #262

    Simon France
    Participant

    We don’t run FM45 courses so I can’t claim any expert knowledge on this.

    However, it sounds as though you should get all the info you need from your Lead Provider. You are not the one with the SFA contract and so all the funding goes to the Lead Provider and they should give you all the info you need to deliver the courses they are claiming funding for.

     
    #263

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    This is really a question for your lead provider.

     
    #264

    Paul John James
    Participant

    Ok thanks for the clarity everyone. Really appreciate it.

     
    #265

    Caspar Verney
    Participant

    Within the above discussion paultaylor has commented that 25% achievement applies – this was so in 2011-12, but in 2012-13 it is now 20%.

    Also Achievement percentage does not apply to Functional Skills and is only deducted from the Main Aim in the Framework in ER.

    If you are going to move from being a subcontractor to being a Lead Provider yourself then you will need to get some software to be able to create your own XML Batch File which you can then run through the LIS. This could be a stand alone system off the shelf (like Maytas) or you could develop your own software, as many have, or you could seek something bespoke from one of the smaller software writers (like me). If you want such a system to interface with your existing recording system then the standard commercial software is highly unlikely to be able to do that for you.

    Once you are on the Provider Register then presumably you will have a Provider Number and that should be within the LIS, so you may be able to find some info within the LIS itself (which you can download), although it does depend what type of provision you are going to do and therefore how the funding calculations work.

    HTH

    Caspar

     
    #266

    lapsed_user
    Member

    Hi,
    I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that achievement percentage was still 25% this year? Is it moving to 20% for 13/14? Upon checking our PFR, we have received 25% for our achievements this year to date.

    Thanks
    Sandra

     
    #267

    lapsed_user
    Member

    Hi
    ,
    Where did you get 20% achievement for 12/13?
    I am in trouble if that is the case as we have based our entire financial reporting on 25%!

    Thanks

    Derek

     
    #268

    paultaylor
    Participant

    It is 25% achievement in 12/13 and the proposal is that this will reduce to 20% in 13/14.

    All classroom qualifications delivered through the ER budget are paid via the traditional ER payments methodology; on programme payments and 25% achievement. There is also the 10% job outcome incentive payment for classroom but lets not confuse things even more than we may have already.

    With regard to the original thread, consulting your lead is the best advice.

     
    #269

    Alan Taws
    Participant

    Latest LIS 20.02 is generating achievement at 25% – at least for aims that started last year and have been achieved this year.
    I was also under the impression that the 20% rate was coming in this year but maybe it’s only for new aims starting after 1st August – which would make sense otherwise carry over aims would be paid 5% less than intended (setting aside SLN value and base rate ranges).

    Can anyone confirm?

     
    #270

    Alan Taws
    Participant

    We have a contract to deliver to 19+ unemployed under ER – I can confirm the funding formula is SLN (as listed under “ER Other”) x programme weighting * disadvantage uplift * area uplift * £2615 – unemployed learners are fully funded.

     
    #271

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Caspar,
    Where did you get the 20% achievement funding for Apprenticeships in 2012/13 from?
    As far as I and the LIS knows it is still 25%.
    If you had a problem with success rates due to L2 key skills provision on an intermediate apprenticeship you may have coded something wrong.

    Regards

     
    #272

    Caspar Verney
    Participant

    It would seem that I have mistakenly worried a lot of people by my comments about 20% Achievement Funding – my humble apologies. I was sure I was right when I wrote it, but now I KNOW I was wrong – please put it down to “a senior moment”!

    The 25% Achievement applies to the Main Aim, but not to Sub-Aims such as Key Skills or Functional Skills from which no Achievement deduction is made.

    Having checked this year’s funding I can confirm that 25% of the Main Aim is deducted. I can see no deduction for the job Outcome Incentive Payment.

    Many thanks,
    Caspar

     
    #273

    Paul John James
    Participant

    Another question on funding help (i’m trying to be efficient by not starting a new topic as it’s all relative) is if the delivery of a qualification through Workplace Learning model (45) funding is to an experienced worker (i.e. someone who has worked in the industry for a length of time that warrants them not being ‘taught’ every piece of knowledge criteria within the qualification, for example, an electrician who has worked for 20 years) then what would the SFA deem is an appropriate amount of ‘learning time’ that should be agreed in the Learning Agreement? Would the SFA not comment and suggest providers seek the advice from the awarding bodies?

    I notice there is no specific number or rule of thumb in the SFA Funding Rules 2012/13 for an experienced workplace learner (in fact there is very little mention of experienced workers in the document)

    I am aware that previous Funding Rules documents suggested a minimum of 8 hours, however, what are people’s thoughts or what are the ‘hidden rules’ on how much learning should/must be delivered in order to draw down full or co-funding for an experienced worker?

    Thanks.

     
    #274

    Paul John James
    Participant

    Hi guys,

    Any thoughts on my last post within this topic?

    Thanks!

     
    #275
Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.