All end dates – Clarification

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Martin West 1 day, 5 hours ago.

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  • NinaManEx
    Participant

    Hi I am still new to funding and have several questions regards end dates for AIMs

    We are currently delivering FRAMEWORK apprenticeships.
    There are 5 AIM’s
    ZPROG, NVQ, VRQ, FSMaths, FSEnglish

    When a learner completes all their learning and has sat all their exams we record their “actual end date” – this will be their last day of delivered learning activity.

    1) For completions is this the correct date we should be using? Or should we be using the ace declaration date, or the certification date?

    2) If we are recording the ace declaration date or certification dates, this affects timely completions. With this is mind, am I correct in understanding that FRAMEWORKS do not have an actual end date and a Achievement date – and FSkills that make up the FRAMEWORK also do not require separate end dates to achievement dates.

    Much appreciated,

    Nina

     
    #326447

    Martin West
    Participant

    The last date of evidence learning for each individual aim, the Programme aim would reflect the date of actual learning of the last aim completed.
    Achievement dates are not recorded for FM35, FM36 Apprenticeship aims.

     
    #326461

    Kelly Knights
    Participant

    It should always be when learning is completed. The date you use for ACE/Z code should also match the date recorded on the ACE declaration.

     
    #326649

    NinaManEx
    Participant

    That’s great thanks very much.

     
    #326767

    NinaManEx
    Participant

    Thank You, very helpful

     
    #326769

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Just to point out, you can now have a framework end date later than the latest component end date (used to be impossible). There can be other elements to a framework that are not the component aims, such as ERR.

     
    #329741

    lucassa
    Participant

    Morning All

    Similar/following on to Nina’s enquiry, can anyone please help me with the following (and please bear with me here, it’s a bit complicated!!)

    We have Apprentice Framework learners who started their programmes 2nd August 2017 and were due to complete 3rd August 2018. They completed their functional skills Maths and English at various times during April to July 2018 and so we have put them on our system with an actual end date of when their last date of learning was in that subject e.g. FS Maths 16/06/18.
    Then they have completed/achieved the remaining parts of the qualification (NVQ etc) and have a last date of learning as 17th September 2018, so this is after their planned end date, but still timely, however this has now taken them into another academic year – 18/19.
    Our MIS system is throwing up the following error telling us we need silr-1819: “aim (50093186) :#learndelfamtype_64#the apprenticeship contract type must be returned for this learning aim”. This is erroring on functional skills which have been completed in the correct year (17/18) and we cannot get rid of them, unless we make ALL end dates 17th September 2018. Plus these learners are also erroring on the FIS and ILR because it tells me “The date applies to should not be after the learning planned end date” Our MIS people say as far as they can see their system is working correctly, so no help from that source!!

    Please help anyone, thanks
    Sally

     
    #330638

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Sally,
    LearnDelFAMType_64 indicates you have not returned the Apprenticeship contract type ACT 1 or 2 for the English or maths component aim.
    The date applies to should not be after the learning planned end date is only a warning not an error.
    HTH

     
    #330798

    lucassa
    Participant

    Hi Martin

    Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have returned the ACT for both the Maths and English components, and this is why I cannot solve the problem. Everything that I think I should have done is in place and these errors have only appeared since we have gone over into a new year and the error is saying specifically it is on the 18-19 silr. Any other ideas would be very greatly received.
    Kind regrads
    Sally

     
    #330806

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Sally,
    I suspect this is down to how your MI system records data for each ILR year, you should ask your software supplier.

     
    #330814

    lucassa
    Participant

    Hi again,

    Yes, I did that Martin, but I got fed up with banging my head against a brick wall, so I decided to try on here instead, because I thought somebody else might have had the same problem! Think of a phrase containing the words fireguard, chocolate, use, much and you’ll be on the right track! If you have any other suggestions I will happily give them a try 🙂

    Enjoy the rest of your day, thanks again.
    Sally

     
    #330880

    Martin West
    Participant

    It might be worth asking other users of the MI system you use for help migrating data from one year to the next.

     
    #330884

    NinaManEx
    Participant

    We have had a similar problem in that the aims do not record individual end dates for withdrawals of aims, because there is no reason recorded against each aim. Although the learner is still in learning against the framework it may be throwing up this error because you haven’t listed the individual aim as completed with a individual aim PED??? – I don’t know for sure, it’s just a possible avenue to look at?

     
    #330963

    lucassa
    Participant

    Thanks Nina

    I have put a completed date on each individual aim and then the system says we need to make the planned end date the same as the actual end date for that aim on another part of the system, which I have also done. The only thing which works without any errors, is if I ignore the actual learning end date, lets say for Maths, and then change that to the end date for the whole programme, which is in another academic year. Once all parts of the qualification have the same end date the error goes away, but from an audit point of view, this is wrong as it looks like we are trying to claim funding on a qualification (FS) which the learner completed several months ago.

    Regards
    Sally

     
    #330973

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    The actual end date must remain as evidenced and not be changed, as I said the message is only a warning and not an indication of an error.

     
    #330981
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