Apprenticeship Pathway Transfers

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This topic contains 2 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Ruth CJ 5 months, 1 week ago.

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  • Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Hello,

    Anyone had an apprenticeship pathway transfer where the apprentice was originally funding 36? We had these all sewn up for funding 35, but this is completely different.

    We’ve got one now, and it seems very complicated. Since you have to close the old framework and open a new one, we need to negotiate a new price for the bit after the pathway change. I have a feeling we’re going to have to work that out based on the amount of funding we’ve already had for the first bit. If the employer has already paid their 10%, we’re going to have to move a proportion of that payment off the original framework and onto the new (or we get no funding because there’s no employer contribution). If they’re levy paying, they have to close their original record and start a new one. What if an employer has gone from small to non-small since the apprentice originally started?

    I’d love any advice if anyone has already done this! I’ve spent all day designing a form for our curriculum staff to complete, and writing guidance for our student records team on how to process it. The Provider Support Manual gives some info on this, but obviously not much about the money.

     
    #227745

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Ruth,
    Hi Ruth,
    In the Technical guidance this is not considered a new start:
    162. For a pathway transfer which is a continuation of the same apprenticeship framework, any additional payments and the framework uplift continue in the same way as if the pathway had not changed.
    You will however need to close and the open a new Programme aim as per the guidance in the ILR Support Guidance Page 101 Transfers to a different apprenticeship with the same provider.
    HTH

     
    #227753

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Hi Martin,

    Agreed that they’re saying this isn’t a “new start”, but that specifically relates to the earning of Uplift and “Additional Payments” (incentives), and doesn’t make any material difference to what I’m doing.

    That was another question I thought of though. Will the ESFA be able to work out from our ILR data that this is a pathway transfer, and that we shouldn’t trigger any further incentive payments for the second programme? The PSM is clear that you don’t record an “Original Start date”, and there’s nothing directly linking the two programmes. Ultimately not my concern if I’ve followed all their guidance correctly. If it did trigger another incentive at three months after the pathway change, it would be their coding at fault.

    Yes, I’ve already read pages 101-102 very thoroughly, and am following that guidance. As you say, you have to start a new programme aim, with a new start date. It also says we must have a price record on the new programme aim. Since we’ll have already earned some funding from the first programme aim, this will have to be whatever we think we still need to deliver the rest of the apprenticeship. That’s not entirely straightforward, especially when the pathways cost different amounts to deliver.

    The PSM does not explain anything about PMR records either. If I don’t put a PMR on the new programme (assuming a non-levy non-small employer), then we surely won’t get any funding for the new programme aim? If the employer paid up front, the only way to solve that is to move some of the existing PMR from the original to the new programme. I can’t see them recognising PMR records from one programme aim as being relevant to another programme aim.

    So, not at all simple. Even if we think you’ve got it sussed on paper, until we actually do it, we won’t know what will happen. That’s why I’m very interested to hear if anyone has done this already in real life.

    Ruth

     
    #227767
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