Apprenticeship Transfers

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This topic contains 8 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Ruth CJ 8 months ago.

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  • Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Hello,

    I’ve asked the Service Desk this question, and they have twice given me a non-reply, so I thought I’d ask you all.

    Imagine you have an apprentice with an employer, who transfers framework, standard or pathway (stays with same employer). You close the original programme aim and open a new one (according to the rules). Both the new and old apprenticeships cost the same. This employer paid their contribution up front, so you’ve recorded the PMR with the full amount on programme aim 1.

    Bearing in mind that, if you don’t record a PMR on programme aim 2, you won’t get the 90% funding for it; what would you do?

    My instinct is to adjust the PMR amount on programme aim 1, to whatever amount calculates to be how much they should have paid by the date they transfer. I’d then move the rest of that amount to programme aim 2, creating a PMR record on there with the same date as the original PMR record. You can record a PMR with a date up to a year earlier than the start date of the programme aim by the looks of the validation rules, so I figure we’d be ok as long as the transfer isn’t more than a year after they originally paid.

    Any other ideas?

     
    #229779

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Ruth,
    I would think it in order to use PMR 3 to reimburse the amount to be credited to Programme aim 2 rather than adjust the original PMR amount.
    HTH

     
    #229787

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Would you actually reimburse the employer, then ask them for the same amount of money straight back? Or would you just record it as if you have, but don’t really?

     
    #229912

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Ruth,
    This would only reflect the transaction you have made in the ILR to adjust the employer payments on the respective programme aims.
    HTH

     
    #229936

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Thanks, that sounds sensible, I’ll give that a go.

    Actually, can I get your thoughts on another query I have outstanding with them?

    If you had a pathway transfer for a funding model 36 apprentice, which section of the PSM rules would you use? I obviously went for section 6.4.5, because that’s bit headed Funding model 36: recording changes. The help desk are telling me to use section 6.2.3, titled Funding model 35 frameworks: recording changes, and are insisting that this section doesn’t just apply to funding model 35.

    They’ve also told me that the bit that starts at paragraph 709 doesn’t apply to pathway changes, despite the fact that it says;

    Transfers to a different apprenticeship with the same provider
    709. If the apprentice changes to a new framework, standard or pathway you must:

    Am I missing something?

    Essentially, the only difference is that for funding 35, it tells you to record an original start date, but funding 36 says not to. The reason this matters is because of the bit you quoted to me the other day from this thread;

    In the Technical guidance this is not considered a new start:
    162. For a pathway transfer which is a continuation of the same apprenticeship framework, any additional payments and the framework uplift continue in the same way as if the pathway had not changed.

    If you’re not supposed to record an original start date, then how do they know not to treat it like a new start, and trigger a new incentive 3 months after the new programme aim start date? I’d be very surprised if they were able to match up the new and old programme aims, and use the start date of the original programme aim to trigger incentives (or not) on the new one.

    Ultimately, I think I’m just going to record an Original Start Date on the funding 36 pathway transfers anyway, despite the fact that the rules say not to. I’d like it if they’d fix the rules though.

     
    #229971

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Ruth,
    I would not think you would need the Restart indicator as a new price episode will be created for the Programme aim.

     
    #230010

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    I assume you agree I should be using PSM section 6.4.5 then 🙂

    How do you think they’ll know to not trigger the incentive payment 3 months after the new programme aim start date?

     
    #230020

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Ruth,
    I would assume because the same framework is identified.
    162. For a pathway transfer which is a continuation of the same apprenticeship framework, any additional payments and the framework uplift continue in the same way as if the pathway had not changed.

     
    #230027

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Yes, that’s the bit I quoted above.

    I think you’re more optimistic than me that they’ll be able to match the old and new programme aims.

     
    #230029
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