DAS DLOCK 05/07

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Ruth CJ 1 week ago.

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  • Jevon Davies
    Participant

    Hi all

    I’m hoping someone may be able to talk some sense on here as I’m certainly not getting any from the Support Desk currently…

    I’ve had an issue going on with the DAS regarding 2 learners who have completed and Intermediate App and moved on to a Advanced App within the same month. This certain scenario is the learner finished on the 2nd July and started the level 3 on 26th July. Not unusual and we’ve come across it often in the past.

    Now, the problem I have is that, with the DAS, you cannot specify the day, only the month and year. This in turn is creating DLOCK 05/07 issues as it can’t seem to decide which records to match against even though all of the details in the ILR and DAS match as they should.

    I spoke to someone from the DAS helpline and I pretty much got the answer “That’s not possible in the system” which was highly helpful. I was then told to try the service desk.

    So far I’ve been offered two suggestions by the Service Desk – Stop the L2 record back to day one and re-enter the Level 3.. or change the Level 3 to start in August. They didn’t seem to grasp that if I did this I’d get a match error on the start date…

    Pulling my hair out and wondering if anyone has got any ideas or experienced anything similar?

     
    #314859

    Steveo
    Participant

    Completed a Learner in mid July and wanted to progress the following day. Like you, service desk informed me a learner cannot be closed down and start a new programme in the same month. The DAS defaults to the 1st of the month so DAs would show the learner on two programmes. Ridiculous when you can complete and start a learner in the same month on the ILR but DAS won’t allow it!

     
    #314891

    Caz
    Participant

    Well the the DAS needs to up its game! Because you have ALWAYS been able to achieve a learner then progress to the next level in the same month. That’s so ridiculous! Why does it default to the 1st of the month – has anybody given a plausible explanation for this??

     
    #315016

    Matt Collishaw
    Participant

    Hi All,

    I echo all that has been said in the thread and have had the same responses myself.
    I believe they should be an official DAS feedback thread on here were we can raise all of these issues nobody at the ESFA seems to want to resolve.

    This is not only affecting providers but also employers as we have had reports of cohort approvals not being sent (emails), tasks not being shown etc.

    The apprenticeship matching report we get is also not worth looking at most are apparently warnings according to service desk and the line seems to be if you getting paid you can ignore these messages.

    The fact that there is no way of completed apprentices showing as completed on the DAS is causing employers to stop the DAS entries causing yet further issues for all involved.

    Cheers

     
    #315122

    Ben.Feighery
    Participant

    I just received this from the service desk..

    Thank you for contacting the Service Desk

    If a learner progresses from one Apprenticeship to the next within the same month the below process needs to be followed to ensure that no Dlock errors trigger.

    Providers should:
    • Record their ILR data to reflect the activity that has occurred
    • Amend the training end date of the first apprentice record on the apprenticeship service – this should be edited to the same month that the they used in the actual end date field of their ILR. This can be done by the employer or the training provider but the change must be approved by both parties
    • Work with the employer during the second apprenticeship to make sure that a second apprentice record is entered on the service and approved by the employer (if this is not done, no payments will be made for the second apprenticeship). This record can start in the same month that the previous one ended
    • If the apprentice is not progressing on to a second apprenticeship programme, the training end date of the apprentice’s record (on the apprenticeship service) does not need to be amended

    Employers should:
    • Not apply a stop or a pause on the apprenticeship service
    • Instead, they will need to amend the training end date of the first apprentice record – this should be edited to the same month that the provider used in the actual end date field of their ILR. This can be done by the employer or the training provider but the change must be approved by both parties
    • Work with the provider to make sure that a second apprentice record is entered on the service and approved by both parties (if this is not done, no payments will be made for the second apprenticeship to the provider)
    • If the apprentice is not progressing on to a second apprenticeship programme, the training end date of the apprentice’s record (on the apprenticeship service) does not need to be amended

    If the Employer has already stopped the record they will need to contact the National Apprenticeship Service for advice on how to correct this issue as the ESFA cannot backdate a record where a stop has been applied by the Employer.

     
    #315166

    Matt Collishaw
    Participant

    Hi Ben,

    Yes I have already received this guidance, clearly not written by anyone who has any idea what happens in the real world.

    The best part is this:
    Record their ILR data to reflect the activity that has occurred

    which we do but non of the information regarding completions is passed to the DAS in any form causing all these Dlock issues. Instead they sit as Live confusing employers causing them to stop completed apprentices we the provider have recorded on the ILR.

    It also does not explain the fact that when a learner progresses from a level 2 to a level 3 for example in the same month. The DAS cannot cope so will show as a Data mismatch on the DAS site for the level 2 completed record, but not the the matching report we receive after submitting an ILR.

    You then have to remember to ignore this issue as the newly entered level 3 entry will be sitting as live working perfectly.

    Working as intended 🙂

     
    #315168

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    We haven’t bumped into this issue yet, so thank you for the heads up, I’ll keep an eye out for it. We just chatted about this, and I think we’d just put the start date of the second apprenticeship to the first day of the next month, knowing it was wrong. What else can you do?

    Has anyone got any legitimate reasons why an employer ever needs to stop a DAS record? Perhaps if the provider were being difficult, but otherwise, they can just leave it can’t they?

     
    #315249

    Steveo
    Participant

    Some of the reasons payments have to be stopped

    * Apprentice leaves Employment
    * Transfer to another Programme
    * Completion of Programme – to prevent the issue/s previously discussed

     
    #315267

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Ruth,
    The Employer funding rules gives guidance for the following:
    Actions to take, the employer must stop payments through their apprenticeship service account for:
    break in learning
    apprentice withdraws
    apprentice is made redundant

    I think this may be the reason so many are doing so.

     
    #315277

    Ben.Feighery
    Participant

    Just to pick up on the idea of moving the learner’s start date to the 1st day of the following month to get around this.. the start date must match that in the commitment statement, so from that aspect it would be a no-go, as well as the possible need to extend the planned end date out to reach the minimum requirements.

     
    #315285

    Steveo
    Participant

    Martin,

    Am I correct in thinking payments are paused for a break in learning and not stopped?

     
    #315296

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Steve,
    I also thought the same that the ILR recording a BIL was all that was required and that this would pause the payment on the levy account, but the Employer funding rules say otherwise.
    No wonder there is confusion.

     
    #315311

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    – If the apprentice leaves employment (including through redundancy), we’ll withdraw them, and the payments will stop anyway.
    – If the apprentice transfers, we’ll record them as transferred, and the payments will stop anyway.
    – When an apprentice goes on a break in learning, the payments stop anyway, and resume once they restart (we’ve tested that one).
    – When the apprentice completes, we’ll code them as completed, and will pull down any balancing payments and the completion payment, and then payments will stop anyway.

    I know the funding rules do say the employer should stop their DAS account when there’s a break or a withdrawal, but it still works fine if they don’t, so what’s the point? It’s just creating work.

    I can see that an employer change would definitely require the first employer to stop their payments.

    My concern is that employers don’t know when to stop the DAS record properly, and we’ve had to get them to set them back up again because they’ve done it wrong/too early. It doesn’t matter what we tell them, they won’t necessarily pay much attention.

    Steveo – I don’t think they should stop it for a Completion. It doesn’t say anywhere in the funding guidance that they should. If they stop it before you get a chance to draw down the completion payment (and maybe balancing payments), that might be a problem.

     
    #315313
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