Employer/Provider = the same

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Martin West 2 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)
  • Author
    Posts

  • matthew.rogers
    Participant

    Good morning,

    We have offered 4 Apprentices a position with to work for us, therefore the employer will be the provider. Three will be due for co-investment; has anyone experiences this since May – how did you treat the co-investment charges – as clearly we are not going to invoice ourselves?

    Kind Regards,
    M

     
    #200788

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Matthew,
    A transfer of funds within your accounting system would suffice as evidence for the financial amounts.
    Hope that helps

     
    #200792

    matthew.rogers
    Participant

    Thanks Martin, much appreciated.

     
    #200838
    SFA STAFF

    Martin Taft
    Keymaster

    To update:

    If you are an employer provider and are paying co-investment costs towards your own staff/apprentices as your levy pot has insufficient funds, then you do not need to invoice yourselves or record these payments on the ILR.

    You will, however, need to record the Learning and Delivery Monitoring (LDM) code 356 – ‘Apprenticeship being delivered to own employees.’

    Further information regarding this can be found in the September edition of Inform:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sfa-inform/inform-september-2017

     
    #203255

    Cris Hale
    Participant

    Hi Martin,

    I don’t know if you’re monitoring this, but we have put this on our 2016-17 and 2017-18 ILRs and the 16-17 ones at least are returning an error because it’s not valid. Should this be input only on 2017-18 ILRs, but for all staff learners, or only for staff learners starting from 2017-18?

     
    #207178

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Cris,
    The code is only valid from 1/5/2017 so can only be used for 17/18

     
    #207199

    Cris Hale
    Participant

    Hi Martin,

    So the code can be used for learners going back as far as the beginning of May, but it can only be entered on the 2017-18 ILR, is that right?

    Thanks,

    Cris

     
    #207206

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Cris,
    The code has not been made available for 16/17 even though it is valid from 1st May 17.

     
    #207215

    Cris Hale
    Participant

    Thanks, Martin.

     
    #207388

    gw30
    Participant

    Following on from this… we aren’t an employer provider, we’re a main provider. Would I still record the LDM as 356 as I cannot see this code on the ILR?

     
    #209033

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    I think there is some confusion here when the term ‘employer provider’ was used by Martin from the SFA as the guidance states:

    For providers delivering apprenticeships to their own staff; you do not need to record any co-investment payments on the ILR. In these cases, please record the Learning and Delivery Monitoring (LDM) code 356 (‘Apprenticeship being delivered to own employees’).

    I am sure this applies irrespective of the Provider type and contract held, you could be A Main Provider, Employer Provider or even a subcontract provider, I hope the ESFA can confirm this.

     
    #209044

    Cris Hale
    Participant

    I had to request that our MIS team add the code, so you may have to do the same.

    I second Martin’s interpretation – I think their use of the term Employer Provider was just unintentionally misleading.

    Cris

     
    #209066
    SFA STAFF

    Martin Taft
    Keymaster

    Thank you Martin and Cris.

    The term was not meant to be misleading and is regardless of employer type. So it is employer providers, or normal providers – it is anyone delivering to their own employees.

    Thank you
    Martin

     
    #216135

    ELAINEC
    Participant

    Hi

    If we are delivering an apprenticeship to our own staff are we paid both the 16-18 provider and the employer incentive payment?

     
    #251071

    Martin West
    Participant

    Yes you will receive both, but you can only have a training price that reflects your actual evidence costs.

     
    #251076

    GaynorLF
    Participant

    Hi

    Can anyone confirm if LDM code 356 should be used for all staff learners (incl 16-18) or just for the staff learners age 19+ that would attract co-investment?

    thanks

     
    #251078

    ELAINEC
    Participant

    Thank you

     
    #251081

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Gaynor,
    Yes use code 356 for all staff learners,but co-investment has nothing to do with Age.

     
    #251088

    GaynorLF
    Participant

    Thanks Martin

    Ourselves and all our employers are SEM’s with less than 50 employees. On that basis co-investment is only required for learner/employee age 19+. All 16-18 learners employed by SEM receive 100% funding. Hence my question.

     
    #251097

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Gaynor,
    The waiver also applies to eligible 19- to 24-year-old as described in the Funding Rules.

     
    #251110

    itsme
    Participant

    Hi, regarding this.

    Has anyone who uses PICS noticed that when using this code 356 on the ILR, the learner status does not display an outcome payment? I have logged this with Pellcomp and am awaiting their reply but just wondered if it was only us?!

     
    #251765

    lharkins
    Participant

    Hi

    I thought i knew the score with this but now i am confused again. If we dont need to show anything in our accounting system, what does this paragraph about this very question mean (received from help desk recently)

    However the provider (as employer) is still expected to contribute co-investment as a portion of the total costs of the apprenticeship, so the amount of co-investment shown on funding reports doesn’t change when LDM code 356 is used.

    How can we prove we are contributing the co-investment payment if we dont show we are contributing the co-investment payment in the accounting system. Is this where the detailed breakdown of costs comes in?

     
    #251775

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Iharkins,
    When you use code 356 you do not return the employer contribution in the ILR and I expect that when the time comes for the ESFA to chase up none payment of co-investment then they will use this code to exclude Employer Providers and other Providers who have their own staff employees as Apprentices.
    HTH

     
    #251800
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