ILR Financial Records TNP / PMR

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This topic contains 19 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Richard Francis 5 days, 17 hours ago.

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  • jakewhite
    Participant

    Hi all,

    Apologies if any of this has been previously covered.

    My questions are:

    Do we need to provide a financial record for Levy Paying Apprenticeships?

    If yes, is this inclusive of TNP & PMR(s)?

    I have read various bits of guidance however they all appear to discuss the financial record in general terms and not differentiate between levy and non-levy (I’m sure I have missed something that it is very blatant).Very grateful for any advice / points in the right direction!

    Many thanks,

    Jake

     
    #158180

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    Yes, you must complete this for all FM36 irrespective of Levy position.
    HTH

     
    #158393

    jakewhite
    Participant

    Thanks Martin!

     
    #158433

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    I don’t think you can record PMRs for levy payers or small employer waiver apprentices. The definition of PMR is;

    Individual payment records of the cash contributions from the employer to the training provider or assessment provider.

    We don’t receive cash contributions from levy payers (well, not unless we negotiate a rate higher than the band maximum), so how could we record a PMR?

    If we did have a levy payer where the rate was negotiated higher than the band maximum, do we put the full negotiated rate in the TNP, or the band max? Will the systems just know to only take the band max from that amount, and assume we’ll get the rest from the employer? In that case, do we then need to record PMR records for the amount above the band max?

     
    #158773

    JJP1981
    Participant

    My understanding is you will have to record the contributions regardless of the employer being levy paying or otherwise (aside from the small employers with age 16-18 apprentices).

    I recall on a webinar we were looking at a month or so back that we would likely download the payments from the digital account and upload the payments to the ILR – if possible!

    Can see nothing that differentiates between the payments under FM36?

    **Edit: Ruth I think the key here is you are viewing the digital account payments as different to cash, which in theory it is, but I think ESFA perspective is that it is a ‘cash’ contribution?

     
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  JJP1981.
    #158813

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    But it specifically says cash and from the employer. Other rules in the ILR spec say;

    Reason Required
    To calculate government co-funding for apprenticeship standards funded through the trailblazer funding model. To monitor employer contributions for apprenticeships funded under the apprenticeship funding model (FundModel 36).

    It’s talking about employer contributions, which is just for non-levy payers. There are no contributions for levy payers (unless we charge more than band max or they run out of levy pot).

    When you have received a cash payment, you must record a separate payment (PMR) record for each payment that the employer makes to you. The financial record date must be set to the date you received payment from the employer.

    We don’t receive levy money on a set date like that, and it’s not from the employer, it’s from their digital account. We’ll get the money in monthly instalments with the rest of the funding. It would be insanity to expect us to transcribe that into PMR records, when they already know what we’ve been sent.

    PSM says;

    512.The payment records are used to calculate and trigger government funding. When government funding is triggered, for grant funded providers this amount is earned against your allocation. For contract funded providers, this amount is released in the next payment run.

    That’s not the case with digital account payments.

    I have no plans to record PMR except for co-investment payments, so hopefully I’m doing it right!

     
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  Ruth CJ.
    #158835

    JJP1981
    Participant

    I completely understand your thought process on it and appreciate that the rules are contradictory in this respect.

    When you look at it altogether though, my conclusion is as above – but as I say I do see your thought process on it.

    we could do with formal clarification and the various documents referencing the levy / cash etc should be reviewed and updated to make clear what is expected!

     
    #158838

    Martin West
    Participant

    A levy paying employer may have insufficient funds in their digital account in which case they would be liable to co-invest 10% of the difference towards the funding

     
    #158850

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Hi Martin, yes, I already pointed that out. Of course we’d need PMR records in that case.

     
    #158862

    TRaynor
    Participant

    Hi Ruth,

    I know this is an old thread but just wondering of you are still only recording co-investment employer payments in your ILR?

    I have read so many different pieces of guidance…. so confused!

    Thanks,
    Claire

     
    #216699

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Hello,

    Yes, PMR records are just for employer contributions. Either the 10% (including where a levy payer has insufficient funds), or any amount above the band maximum.

    Is anyone else saying otherwise?

    Ruth

     
    #216703

    TRaynor
    Participant

    Hi Ruth,

    Yes it doesn’t make sense to me why we would have to record the payments from the employers digital account in the ILR when the ILR is linked to the digital account… so it makes sense only to record payments from co-investment employers who are paying the 10%… or payments of employers who have gone over their levy.

    I have been waiting all week for the helpdesk to get back to me about this.

    Claire

     
    #216908

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Claire,
    Why do you say ‘you have to record the payments from the employers digital account in the ILR’?
    I have not seen any guidance that could be misread to indicates this.

     
    #216916

    Ruth CJ
    Participant

    Claire was pointing out that it wouldn’t make sense to do that. I think that is specifically with reference to the comments by JJP1981 above, who believes that you should add your digital account payments as PMR records, and not with reference to any of her own misreading.

     
    #216918

    TRaynor
    Participant

    Hi Martin,

    I ask this because the guidance doesn’t seem to distinguish between recording PMRs from levy and non-levy employers in the ILR.

    “When you have received a cash payment, you must record a separate payment (PMR) record for each payment that the employer makes to you. The financial record date must be set to the date you received payment from the employer” – Does this then mean that payments from the digital account aren’t classed as ‘payments that the employer has made to us’ and that we only record the 10% from co-investment employers or the 10% when a levy payer has used all their levy fund?

    I am sorry if I am being daft here, I am very new to this field and I just want to make sure that I am recording everything correctly.

    Claire

     
    #216920

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    The guidance is clear and simple, it relates to both levy and non-levy paying employers when you receive a payment direct from the employer you must record this in the ILR.

     
    #216927

    TRaynor
    Participant

    Hi Martin,

    So just to clarify for my own boggled head…

    The only things that are recorded as a PMR are:

    – The 10% employer contribution from non-levy payers
    – The 10% employer contribution from levy payers who have used up their levy money

    Not the payments received via the digital account on the ‘apps monthly payments’ report?

    Thanks for your help,
    Claire

     
    #216929

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    It will include all employer payments due to be paid direct to the provider and not only the 10% co-investment contributions, the following is shown as an example in the funding rules where this could apply.
    156.4. If the employer negotiates an overall price that is more than the maximum allowed by the funding band for the chosen apprenticeship, then the employer must pay in full the difference between the band maximum and the agreed total price. This must not be funded from the digital account or co-investment. You may charge VAT on the difference.

     
    #216944

    CheDag
    Participant

    Hi,

    I have recently started doing these records for the ILR. Having searched and read through this thread, I am still none the wiser. Can someone confirm that we don’t input PMR if they are a Levy employer that are paying solely via the digital account (i.e. they haven’t used up their levy money). TIA

     
    #305493

    Richard Francis
    Participant

    Hi CheDag,

    That’s correct. The only time you’d use PMR is if the employer has insufficient funds in their Levy account and is therefore under the co-investment model, or if you negotiated a price that was above the funding band maximum.

    Cheers,
    Richard.

     
    #305495
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