Level 2 requirement for standards

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  jaxrees01 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • darrenvidler
    Participant

    Hi,

    Just had the following from the ESFA re the requirement for functional skills or GCSE in English & Maths for apprenticeship standards:

    You will be able to use any suitable level 2 english / maths functional skills however SASE will not be exempt.

    So we’re saying that the only exemption for level 2 is now a functional skill or GCSE? Surely that’s penalising those with A levels, O levels, etc which, under SASE, would have been an exemption?

    Darren

     
    #160964

    Wendy
    Participant

    Interesting, we haven’t as yet, delivered any standards so I am not sure of the process of claiming the apprenticeship certificate, will this still be done via ACE? I notice on the ACE website that everything still seems to refer to frameworks rather than standards.

    We will deliver standards to our H&SC learners from next month so I am watching this thread with interest, thanks for posting Darren

     
    #161003

    Cris Hale
    Participant

    That’s a very good point – I hadn’t even considered that the usual transferable skills might not apply. So how do we know GCSEs will be acceptable – is it just because they’re fundable?

    Cris

     
    #162255

    darrenvidler
    Participant

    Interestingly i’ve not been able to get a definitive answer out of the ESFA helpdesk other than the above – they haven’t been willing to commit to what are “suitable” level 2 qualifications.

    Darren

     
    #162262

    Cris Hale
    Participant

    Just been looking for whether you’re expected to assess learners’ maths and English and I’ve noticed that it does specify Functional Skills or GCSEs in paragraph 106.1. I guess they no longer accept Key Skills or A/AS levels, at least for now.

    Cris

     
    #164269

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi All,
    The funding rules state: We will fund apprentices to achieve qualifications in English or maths (or both), if they do not already meet the required standard (please see below).
    The usual stipulation for a standard is to achieve a level 2 and as such where a learner has a qualification above a GCSE grade A* to C then they will have met the required standard.
    HTH

     
    #164294

    darrenvidler
    Participant

    Hi all,

    I’ve attended a webex today with City and Guilds who have confirmed that only GCSEs or Functional Skills will be counted as meeting the requirement for level 2.

    Hope this helps!

    Darren

     
    #167407

    Wendy
    Participant

    Thanks for the update Darren

     
    #167409

    Wayne Hosking
    Participant

    Help.
    I’m losing the will to live on the changes to standards and the lack of clarification from the ESFA on many topics. I’ve asked the service desk several times on clarification on what are the exemptions for English and Math’s at Level 2 are, and it’s still not that clear. When I even asked City and Guilds service desk I was told to refer to the SASE framework document that was released in July, and thus when I questioned that this was for frameworks only, the reply was, “the assumption that is covers both frameworks and standards”.

    Is the understanding that the only exemptions for English and Math’s at Level 2 are GCSE’s A-C (4 to 9), Functional Skills Level 2, or something above those levels like an A-Level. I find it illogical for the ESFA to be working to two different models on exemptions for frameworks and standards

    Any further thought since previous posts would be helpful.

    If there a list for standards on English and Math’s exemptions like there is for frameworks?

    Thanks

    Wayne

     
    #204545

    Martin West
    Participant
    #204550

    Wayne Hosking
    Participant

    Thanks Martin, must have missed this when it got released end of September as my .gov alerts had turned off. I use to use the FE INFORM app on my tablet but it seems to have gone down the pan, shame, as it was darn handy.

    Wayne

     
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Wayne Hosking.
    #204771

    darrenvidler
    Participant

    Hi,

    Has anyone had any thoughts or information on whether the guidance issued last month can be applied to standards above level 3? Just thinking about some of the level 4 and 5 standards that require evidence of a level 2 English/maths qual being achieved prior to EPA.

    Darren

     
    #205668

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Darren,
    The guidance does say level 3 or above.

     
    #205679

    darrenvidler
    Participant

    Ah, thanks Martin.

    I skipped straight to Annex A…

    Darren

     
    #205683

    jaxrees01
    Participant

    On another note regarding functional skills exemptions, please see the following:

    During an internal audit of our learners undertaking Functional Skills we have identified a learner who when she started her L3 Health and Social Care Apprenticeship programme on 28/5 /16 was not exempt from having to take her Functional Skills English level 2 as she did not have a Grade C or above GCSE in English language. Therefore we have delivered A GREAT DEAL OF structured learning with her for her Level 2 Functional Skills in English, in accordance with the funding rules (2015/15) and the Apprenticeship Certificates England (ACE) Transferable Skills document in place at the time of her sign up, and she has now passed the reading part of the assessment. However the attached ACE document (Transferable Skills – for modified SASE effective 22/8/17) was issued and states on the front cover that from 22/08/17 that the changes ** APPLIES TO ALL NEW APPRENTICES AND THOSE CURRENTLY ON PROGRAMME **. This is indicating that a learner who now has an English Literature qualification with a grade 4 or Grade C is exempt from Functional Skills English.

    As our learner was originally not exempt from undertaking her Functional Skills English in accordance with previous ACE Transferable Skills document and SFA Funding rules 2015/16, we have as previously stated and are delivering her Functional skills. However since the issue of the revised ACE Transferable Skills Document on 22.8.17 she now appears to be exempt as she has a suitable English literature Grade c GSCE exemption that was not originally acceptable when she started programme.

    With the new ACE Transferable Skills document (dated 22.8.17) making the statement ** APPLIES TO ALL NEW APPRENTICES AND THOSE CURRENTLY ON PROGRAMME ** does this mean we are no longer eligible for the funding we have received from the ESFA and will it be clawed back?

    In summary, I can understand that this applies to new learners from 22.8.17 onwards, but it seems incredibly harsh to financially penalise a training provider who has delivered activity in good faith and in accordance with the funding rules (2015/16) and ACE Transferable Skills in place at the time. Is it right that we will have to return funding for the structured learning that we have already delivered in accordance with the funding rules that were in force at the time that the learner started her programme of study? If we are to pay back any moneys is this a breach of contract on the part of the ESFA?

    Can anyone clarify this issue for us please?

     
    #205691

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    You would not have to return funding you have already claimed for this delivery in these circumstances or similar situations where evidence of prior qualification was not available at the start of learning, I am sure it is ESFA policy but I cannot recall where or if this is documented.

     
    #205693

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    This was the answer to a similar question in 2015:

    It is important to us that we treat all providers fairly and consistently. Our view has always been that unless the learner can prove they already have a mandatory qualification or they have an exemption then all learning aims in an apprenticeship framework must be delivered. If the learner starts a learning aim and then turns up with the certificate at a later date we would fund the learning aim started up to that point. I think Allan’s point above about having a policy is very good practice. You need to be aware that withdrawing an apprentice from an aim they no longer need will not affect your QSR as the apprenticeship is treated as a whole item rather than the separate parts.

    Nick Chomyk
    Funding Systems Team

     
    #205704

    jaxrees01
    Participant

    Thank you very much for your comments. They are very much appreciated

    Jax

     
    #205734
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