Subcontracting Clarification:-

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Martin West 1 month ago.

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  • Jo Phillips
    Participant

    Hi there

    Please could someone help me with a question: What’s the difference between declared services subcontracting and provision subcontracting?

    Many thanks

    Jo

     
    #251133

    M1
    Participant

    Hi Jo

    Services subcontracting is where you use another company to deliver part of the Framework or Standard. For example, you may use a training centre to deliver the technical knowledge of the apprenticeship and they are your apprentices, who you review etc.

    Provision subcontracting is where another training company who has no direct contract with the ESFA wants to deliver apprenticeships. They will use your contract allocation to fund their work and you would charge a fee (should be no more than 20%) for this to cover training and contract compliance checks etc. This company must carry out everything that you would do with your apprentices.
    Please bear in mind, these apprentices are still classed as yours and the liability rests with you and now there has to be an amount of training delivered by you too!
    It’s best to look in version 6 of the Apprenticeship funding and performance-management rules for training providers for more detailed guidance, but the above is just a brief overview.

    HTH
    Mark

     
    #251149

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Jo,
    Provision is as in ‘delivery’ and the exclusions are ‘services’ in the following:

    We use the term ‘delivery subcontractor’ to include any organisation contracted through a main provider or employer-provider to deliver apprenticeship off-the-job training, English or maths or planned on-programme assessment. This excludes end-point assessment organisations; end-point assessment organisations are not delivery subcontractors. It also excludes subcontractors you use for different services, including help with marketing or data management, as well as those who deliver training to an apprentice that is in addition to the apprenticeship and not funded through this route.

     
    #251151

    Jo Phillips
    Participant

    Hi Mark, Martin

    Thanks for your speedy responses.

    I use an FE college to deliver a small part of an apprenticeship, I’m the lead provider and do everything with the apprentices so I would say that’s services subcontracting, would you?

    Many thanks

    Jo

     
    #251153

    M1
    Participant

    Hi Jo

    Yes, same as we do. It would be services.

    Mark

     
    #251155

    Jo Phillips
    Participant

    Thank you Mark

    Best

    Jo

     
    #251157

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi,
    Can I ask the reason why you asked the question as where delivery subcontractor is recorded in the ILR then the following applies for each aim?
    This field must be completed if any proportion of the learning aim is delivered by a partner organisation. This partner organisation may be a provider, employer or employer-provider that is engaged to deliver education and training provision.

    I thought ‘service subcontracting’ was for subcontractors you use for different services, including help with marketing or data management, as well as those who deliver training to an apprentice that is in addition to the apprenticeship and not funded through this route.

     
    #251165

    Jo Phillips
    Participant

    Hi Martin

    Sory for the delayed response. In the .Gov.uk Update: issue 398 11.04.18, it mentions that providers have been contacted by e-mail to submit a template by 5pm on Friday 27 April for their subcontracting provision, I didn’t received anything. I was advised by the ESFA that mine was declared ‘services’ subcontracting and not ‘provision’ subcontracting in 16/17, therefore I wasn’t in scope for this particular exercise.

    To be honest I’m still not sure this is correct?

    I have asked the ESFA to clarify but they haven’t yet, that’s why I posted the question.

    Best

    Jo

     
    #251677

    M1
    Participant

    Hi Jo

    The subcontracting declaration form in the past has indicated both, services and provision subcontracting which also had to be added to your website. However it now seems that ESFA do not wish to know the services amount anymore, so it’s only the provision amount and I can only assume they know from your previous declaration forms so didn’t send you anything to complete.
    Apparently it’s for a more transparent approach to subcontracting, to quote their language.

    I’m no expert, but this is how I see it.

    Mark

     
    #251679

    Jo Phillips
    Participant

    Thanks Mark

    Best
    Jo

     
    #251693

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Jo,
    The guidance said, For the purposes of this form, the definition of a subcontractor is a separate legal entity that has an agreement with you to deliver any element of the education and training we fund.

    While this time the return is only required to include Provision subcontracting the definition of service subcontracting has changed with the addition of off-the-job knowledge training and my assumption is that this is intended to cover instances under levy funding where the employer was subcontracted for only their part in the off-the-job knowledge training.

    You can read the definition of Provision subcontracting to read that it applies to whole Apprenticeship provision only ‘For example, provider A (the lead provider) delivers healthcare and diversifies its offer by contracting with provider B (the subcontractor) an allocation of funding to deliver business administration.’ But I do not think this is the case as for Apprenticeships ‘You must directly deliver some of the apprenticeship training and/or on-programme assessment associated with each employer’s apprenticeship programme.’

    I would go back to the service desk and ask for a clarification on what is service provision.
    HTH

     
    #251707

    Jo Phillips
    Participant

    Thanks Martin

    I’ve just had a response:-
    Dear Jo

    Your fees and charges policy must only include ‘provision subcontracting’. This is when you subcontract the delivery of full programmes or frameworks. It is not subcontracting a service as part of the delivery of a programme (for example, part of an apprenticeship framework or outreach support).

    If you are not sure whether your subcontracting is ‘provision subcontracting’, please discuss this with our Central Delivery Service.

    Hope this helps.

    Kind regards
    ESFA

     
    #251716

    Martin West
    Participant

    Hi Jo,
    I do not think the ESFA really what to publish the extent of Apprentice subcontracting as this does not fit with: You must directly deliver some of the apprenticeship training and/or on-programme assessment associated with each employer’s apprenticeship programme.

    But at least you now have the answer.

     
    #251730
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