Tagged: Subcontracting Declaration 17/18
The latest subcontracting declaration is now on the SFS and what a pain to complete!
However, I remember the ESFA mentioning that the subcontracting information that has to be posted on our website is for ‘Provision’ subcontracting only, ‘Services’ subcontracting need not be on there.
I cannot find much about the completion of this new declaration and what is to go on? Is it for all subcontracting as per the old spreadsheet, or just ‘Provision’?
Thank you in anticipation.
MarkFebruary 6, 2018 at 10:47 am #234091
nothing nowadays is pain free with all of the stuff happening!!
I completed the declaration the other day, a job and a half, and there is the question of whether the subcontract arrangement is for full programmes or not so I have gone on the basis that if the answer is yes it is provision subcontracting and if no it is the old services definition.
ChrisFebruary 6, 2018 at 10:54 am #234093
Thank you for your reply, so did you include your ‘Services’ subcontracting in yours?
MarkFebruary 6, 2018 at 10:58 am #234095
I volunteered for the initial test and feedback for the new SFS portal.
At the time I asked about what constitutes Services, and their definition was anything you additionally contract for that relates directly to learning, but is not part of the main provision subcontract. E.g. an industry specialist to deliver learning for a particular part of a programme that cannot be met by the main Provider.
Services do not relate to any associated costs, such as MIS subscriptions, ICT equipment, etc.February 6, 2018 at 11:19 am #234112
yes I have and just shown it as the “no” option. I am not sure if it right but it is close enough I am sure! I think better to include than not.
Further to this I am looking after the data and contract management for one company that delivers the apprenticeship in sporting excellence under their new arrangements for elite non-employed sports people. It is an oddball insofar as it is still almost fully set up as an apprenticeship record however funded via the old EFA budget. There was no option for that so I have just returned it as non-levy 16-18 as the nearest match. We try out best do we not?
ChrisFebruary 6, 2018 at 11:22 am #234116
for apprenticeships the example that used to be cited for services is construction where the knowledge (tech cert) is delivered by a college for example.
ChrisFebruary 6, 2018 at 11:24 am #234118
Ok, thank you.
I’d better put a day aside for this then, where it used to be around an hour!
MarkFebruary 6, 2018 at 12:50 pm #234132SFA STAFF
We very much appreciate any feedback on your experience of completing the on-line Subcontractor Declaration form which will help us improve the service.
There is a link to a Feedback form on the bottom of the Skills Funding Service home page.
Thank youFebruary 7, 2018 at 10:35 am #234345SFA STAFF
Subcontractor Declaration definitions:
Whole training programmes: where we refer to subcontracting ‘whole training programmes’ we mean where you do not deliver any of the learner’s programme or apprenticeship.
Part training programmes: where we refer to subcontracting ‘part training programmes’ we mean where you deliver some of the learner/s programme or apprenticeship and subcontract the remainder.February 8, 2018 at 1:08 pm #234674SFA STAFF
The Survey link referred to in a previous post is incorrect.
To provider feedback on the Subcontractor Declaration process they Survey link is on the ‘Confirmation’ page displayed after submitting a declaration.
Apologies for the confusionFebruary 8, 2018 at 1:10 pm #234677
Just an FYI… I attempted to complete our declaration today, but came across a slight issue on the ‘Your Fees and Charges’ section.
Any weblink to your fees and charges that exceeds 75 characters will not pass validation. Ours has more than 75 characters, as do many webpage addresses. I’ve queried this but have received no response to date. Hopefully I’ll receive an answer before the 14th!
Just be aware if you have not yet completed your declaration.February 8, 2018 at 1:17 pm #234679
Exactly Alan, and if the person(s) looking for the document can’t find it due to the shortened address that has to be entered they will have to ask for it!!!
Enough is enough with this!!!!
We jump through more hoops!!!!!!!February 8, 2018 at 1:23 pm #234687SFA STAFF
We are aware of the URL length restriction and we are addressing the issue urgently. We expect the URL length restriction, to be increased to 256 characters, to be fixed by mid day tomorrow (9/2)
Provider Digital Services
Alan – You should recieve a reply to your query from the ESFA Servicedesk shortly.February 8, 2018 at 1:55 pm #234699
Hi John North,
I am still not clear on this:
Where an Employer delivers training as a subcontractor and the total value of these arrangements will be less than £100,000 per year they are not required to apply for RoATP.
Does the subcontracted Employer have to register on UKPRN? if not how will the ESFA know how many Employers are acting as and being funded as subcontractors?
If not I think there is a big hole here that needs to be plugged.February 8, 2018 at 2:32 pm #234719SFA STAFF
Hi Martin West,
The subcontracted employer will need a UKPRN to be included in the subcontractor declaration.
When adding a subcontractor on the declaration they must have a UKPRN.February 8, 2018 at 2:41 pm #234721
Chris Bradley – If you hear anything more about where to put Sporting Excellence, I’d be very interested! They don’t fall into any category properly. I was foolishly looking for them in HUB reports today, and they don’t appear anywhere.February 8, 2018 at 4:28 pm #234755
yes indeed, it has been somewhat confusing from the outset of how the detail for the new AASE arrangements would be seen from the reporting and payments perspective. You are absolutely correct that they are below the radar anywhere really and I chose to add them as I did i.e. non-levy post May just so that in my view the right thing has been done to at least show them transparently. I am just tracking the funding manually at the moment and look forward to how this works in the new contract year given how the allocation for this year was calculated.
ChrisFebruary 8, 2018 at 11:48 pm #234809
In response to Martin and John above, am I right in thinking if we are to work with an employer with a small subcontract we would still have to declare them and they would have to register on UKRLP first in order to generate a UKPRN and then be added onto our declaration?
DawnFebruary 9, 2018 at 2:56 pm #234936
I think this is the case as the contracting agencies are stakeholders in the following
The stakeholders participating in the UKRLP project require that learning providers with which they engage have a UK Provider Reference Number (UKPRN).
HTHFebruary 10, 2018 at 10:29 am #235070
Hi John North
How are you?
Can I just clarify in respect of non-levy carryover. ESFA have merged the non-levy starts allocation from the 1st August 2017 to 31st December with the non-levy carryover for these learners between 1st January 2018 to 31st July 2018. For the cash value 16-18 and 19+ do we enter the total amount contracted for non-levy starts and carryover? Plus what do we do in terms of volumes? I’m presuming that we just enter starts as they will be the same learners.
I am aware that we are not required to enter procured non-levy at this stage.
Any advice would be great.
February 12, 2018 at 9:28 am #235516
- This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by MelButcher.
Thanks Martin. Useful as always.
DawnFebruary 12, 2018 at 10:00 am #235522
For the declaration, do you just include new starts from Aug 17 or are carry overs included?
Is it just looking at learners between 01/08/2017 to date or do you have to forecast as well?
Can’t find any guidance on this so any help would be greatly appreciated
thanksFebruary 12, 2018 at 3:15 pm #235566
Are we not require to complete this for EFA learners, appears not by the declaration??
thanksFebruary 13, 2018 at 5:14 pm #235801
I am a bit late starting this!
The section that says how much are you paying your subcontractor – does this include any additional fees outside of the levy/10% co-investment as specified by the subcontractor?February 14, 2018 at 9:53 am #235915
Not sure I understand what you mean by ‘additional fees outside of the levy/10% co-investment as specified by the subcontractor’
You should enter the gross value of the funds received from the Agency that you subcontract for delivery.February 14, 2018 at 11:01 am #235926
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