Quick question on how I record payments
TNP 1 – £3000 cap for qualification
TNP 2 – 850 for EPA
The employer paid 10% contribution so £300, do I need to break this down to show that it covers the EPA as well? confused.com
SarahApril 25, 2018 at 3:53 pm #252212
Or should we have charged them 10% of the total added together? Or is the EPA included in the price?
I only have a few learners on standards currently so very new to me!April 25, 2018 at 3:56 pm #252214
TNP 1 is for your training costs
TNP 2 is the EPA costs where known
The total TNP 1 and TNP 2 is the total cost to which the CAP applies and the 10% employer contribution
HTHApril 25, 2018 at 4:04 pm #252221
so where £3000 is the cap, £850 of that is for the EPA, meaning the training cost is £2150? Is that right? If so, how do I record the payment of £300? just with a PMR 1 of £300?April 25, 2018 at 4:10 pm #252232
Correct 🙂 However, you’re not supposed to just charge the cap, and work out the training price based on the cap minus the EPA cost. You’re supposed to working out your training price based on a broken down costing, then add the EPA cost, to come up with your total price, which will hopefully be on or under the cap.
In your example we’d record that as PMR 1 = £215 and PMR 2 = £85.
It gets more interesting when they’re paying in instalments. We record all PMR against 1 until it’s up to 10% of TNP 1, then the rest goes against PMR 2. Sometimes one payment in the middle gets split across two PMR records.April 25, 2018 at 5:36 pm #252243
As Ruth has said the provider training costs can only include eligible costs as under P88 in the funding rules, P91 also details the ineligible costs that you cannot include.
The best practice’s I have come across for a payment schedule for an Employers co-investment is for short duration programmes is to collect the full amount upfront and for longer durations to base scheduled payments for the training cost over the duration of training with the final EPA payment at the gateway point.
I know some will say that this may not match the 10% monthly payments indicated by the ESFA but the funding rules allow for this in the following paragraph:
191.2 you may agree a schedule of co-investment payment with the employer which does not match monthly payments made by us, provided the employer has paid a matching 10% at our three-monthly data-points.
HTHApril 26, 2018 at 8:38 am #252354
Just on this and doigthis th first time..
We are using a £5k Standard so a I correct in thinking that we place in the ILR:
TNP as £4250
TNP (EPA) as £750
Virgin ActiveApril 26, 2018 at 10:29 am #252393
Thank you for your answers, I have not done any submissions to date for learners on standards so is all very useful
Mac Cleeves – I would say this is correct based on what others have responded as above. You would then need to record the payments, so if 10% is paid and this equals £500 then you need to split it down as PMR 1 – £425 and PMR 2 – £75
Would everyone agree with this?
This will help clarify things in my own mind too!
SarahApril 26, 2018 at 11:14 am #252408
Thank you for responding, I am still slightly confused.com!
We are an Employer Provider so we are not using any sub contractors apart from the obvious EPA:
We are using the standard code as 105 as Zprog1 and a non reg for main aim 3 as the first cohort of learners are not eligible for any FS, therefore:
The standard Cap is £5k
TNP 1 = £4250
TNP 2 = £750
We have put this programme over 14 months therefore:
£5k- 20% retention for achievement payment =£4k divide by 14 months should yield an OPP of £285.71 pm
Am I on the right track?April 26, 2018 at 11:25 am #252418
I have not factored in the retention payment so have no idea if I am on the right track now! Although your calculation does seem to add up
I have just emailed the helpdesk to confirm I am on the right track in terms of TNP and PMR’s. I had previously entered just one TNP record to show the whole agreed figure but now understand I should have split it to show the EPA as a separate cost
Confused.com is a massive understatement………!!!!
Sorry I cannot offer you much help here, I am as much in the dark as you by the sound of it!!
SarahApril 26, 2018 at 11:36 am #252427
As and Employer Provider you can only claim evidenced training costs as outlined in the funding rules.
136.4. can include payroll, pay slips, expense claims, hourly pay rates for staff delivering training and assessment to apprentices and training plans that include the hours of training delivered
136.5. are allowed to claim salaries plus ‘on-costs’ of employees directly involved in the administration of apprenticeship training (‘on costs’ include employment costs such as employer pension contributions, national insurance and employee benefits; travel and subsistence costs for these employees can also be used if these directly relate to apprenticeship delivery
136.6. are allowed to claim for accommodation and facilities where the employer can demonstrate that this has been used for training and/or end-point assessment for the apprentice during the time claimed
136.7. cannot claim for employee’s time for any activity not connected to the administration, training or on-programme assessment of the apprenticeship; bonuses or profit are also ineligible costs
You must evidence your actual costs first as TNP 1 and add the EPA cost as TNP2 if this comes to more than the Cap then you will have to fund the difference.
HTHApril 26, 2018 at 11:51 am #252429
Great thank you and we have produced a cost calculator for the fees and showed this to the ESFA in a recent compliances visit.
We have varied learners and not placed all on full cap due to APL/RPL
My biggest worry is getting the right code in the ILR to match the cap, as never done this before and the standard does not have any tech cert in it.
Therefore we have placed the 105 as the main aim (ZProg000) but when we have looked at the MIS funding suite report currently sat in Cognisoft it is showing £26.33 OPP?
I have sent a help email to the LRS
Thanks MartinApril 26, 2018 at 12:00 pm #252435
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